Episode Description
Parker Garlitz is one of the founders and owners of the microgreens seed and equipment company True Leaf Market.
Parker has been around the microgreens industry for over 30 years, before microgreens were even called microgreens! Along with sharing valuable information on microgreens seeds, Parker also tells his interesting backstory and how True Leaf Market was formed.
In this episode you’ll learn:
- About the growing popularity of microgreens, and how the industry was affected by Covid-19.
- How some microgreens seeds could cause mold problems, and how to avoid them.
- Where microgreens seeds come from.
- The difference between microgreens seeds and regular seeds.
- The difference between treated and non-treated seeds.
- The difference between GMO and non-GMO seeds.
- The difference between hybrid, open-pollinated, and heirloom seeds.
- The length of time seeds stay viable after being taken from the plant.
Get all of your microgreens seeds and supplies at trueleafmarket.com
The link for True Leaf Market provided in these show notes is an affiliate link, which means that should you click on this link, and then go ahead and purchase something from their website, I will receive a small commission. This is at no extra cost to you, and you can be assured I only promote products that I am confident of their quality, or have previously bought myself. This helps support the making of free products like my ebook and podcast
Episode Transcript
Hello, there. I hope you’re having a great week. Welcome to Episode 9 of the Microgreens Entrepreneur Podcast. I’ve got a very special episode for you today. I’ve got a Microgreens Seed Masterclass, and joining me on the podcast today to deliver this information is Parker Garlitz. Parker is one of the Founders of True Leaf Market.
[0:20] True Leaf Market, if you don’t know them, are the biggest and most popular microgreens seed seller in the United States. Parker, himself, has been around the microgreens industry for over 30 years before microgreens were even called microgreens. So, it’s safe to say he knows a thing or two.
[0:35] During the interview, we’ll get into talking about seed mold, how long seed lasts, the state of the microgreens industry, and a whole lot of good stuff like that. I really encourage you to listen to the full episode and hear all of the knowledge that Parker shares on microgreens seeds. All right, so we’ll get on to the interview.
* * * Intro Music * * *
You’re listening to The Microgreens Entrepreneur Podcast, where the aim is to help you start, grow, and improve any microgreens business. I’m your host, Brian, owner of a microgreens business that I operate out of my own home. Stay tuned and welcome along.
[1:16] Brian: Okay. I’m here with Parker Garlitz, one of the founders and owners of the True Leaf Market. TrueLeafMarket.com is the go-to seed company in the United States for Microgreens growers, and today we’re going to be talking about the growth of the microgreens industry and everything you need to know about microgreen seeds. Parker, thanks a million for coming onto the podcast. How’s it going there?
[1:34] Parker Garlitz: It’s going great. Thank you so much for having me, Brian. I appreciate it.
[1:39] Brian: I’m looking forward to picking your brain with a bunch of questions about microgreen seeds and the microgreens industry. But before we get into that, if you don’t mind, would you give us a bit of background information on your story and maybe how you came to be one of the founders and owners of True Leaf Market?
[1:56] Parker Garlitz: You bet. I’d be glad to do that. Let me start. In 1990 or ’91 – I have a hard time recollecting exactly when it was. It was probably ’91. I started a local greenhouse servicing juice bars and health food stores in my local area with a partner.
[2:18] We started primarily growing wheatgrass and selling wheatgrass to our local area. We pretty soon after that, started growing a few other varieties of seeds to service the needs of those same clients. The two varieties that we were selling quite a bit of in addition to wheatgrass were sunflower greens and buckwheat greens.
[2:50] At the time, we weren’t calling them microgreens. I don’t know when the term microgreens started coming into popular use, but it was the same stuff we grow today and in the same way. So we were technically, I guess, growing microgreens 30 years ago.
[3:10] My sister, who had graduated from high school – actually, I’m going to fast-forward about ten years. My sister graduated from high school in 2000, and she was interested in what I was doing. I was doing a lot of eCommerce stuff at the time. She approached me and said, “I’d really be interested in selling online and doing some kind of eCommerce business.” I said, “Why don’t we start a business together?” She had done a lot of work in the greenhouse and had a green thumb. She’s also a vegan, so she’s very interested in health and living foods.
[3:48] We decided we would start a business selling wheatgrass growing kits for people who wanted to grow wheatgrass kits in their own homes. We started that business in 2000, and our flagship website was wheatgrasskits.com. My job was marketing, and she was day-to-day operations, and we started on that.
[4:10] I didn’t think there was that huge a demand for wheatgrass, but as it turned out, it was a lot bigger than I gave it credit for. Before long, we were selling sprouting products to grow alfalfa sprouts and that type of thing. We were also selling a pretty limited line of microgreens. Again, this was in the era before anybody called them microgreens. We were still selling supplies and kits to grow sunflower and buckwheat, which were the two primary ones.
[4:43] In 2014, we merged our company. Our company was called Living Whole Foods. We merged with one of our suppliers, a company called Mountain Valley Seed Company, and Mountain Valley Seed Company was a more traditional garden seed company. We combined forces in 2014, and one of our primary focuses at that point was microgreens and expanding a product line of microgreens. So we started that focus and started to expand our offering of microgreen seeds.
[5:19] In the earlier days of Living Whole Foods, our kits, including microgreens kits, were designed for a hobbyist grower, a home grower, whereas Mountain Valley’s customer base was more of a professional grower, so we expanded our offering of microgreen seeds with a focus on serving both markets – starter kits and a small quantity of microgreen seeds and supplies for the hobby grower per countertop, all the way up to large-growing operations with bulk seed and bulk pricing.
[5:57] That’s the story of our company. We still sell garden seeds, flower seeds, herb seeds, a lot of sprouts, and sprouting seeds, but microgreens is a pretty significant segment of our business.
[6:12] Brian: Really interesting story, and thanks for sharing that. It sounds like you’ve been on the journey with microgreens being what they are today from the very start. That’s interesting what you say that they weren’t even called microgreens back then.
[6:26] Parker Garlitz: Yeah. I’m trying to think about the first time I ever heard the term microgreens applied to them. It was probably around 2009 or 2010 was the first time I personally ever heard the term.
[6:39] Brian: I suppose that probably ties nicely into the first question I have for you on microgreens. I feel like you would be in a good position to tell us what state the microgreens industry is in, obviously, because you’ve been with it the whole way for the last 30 years. You’re also seeing all the seed sales come in and maybe you could give us a little insight into the rise of microgreens, I suppose you could call it.
[7:03] Parker Garlitz: Yeah. Let me answer that question two ways. Let’s talk about what was happening before coronavirus, and what has happened since coronavirus. Prior to coronavirus, we were seeing very strong growth in the microgreens segment of our business with lots of first-time growers coming on and existing growers ordering larger and larger quantities as they serve their respective markets which from my perspective is really farmers markets, health food and grocery stores, and restaurants. Those are the three big segments that I think we see.
[7:45] Demand got better and better every year from the time that we merged in 2014 through January and February of this year, we were seeing very strong growth. It’s hard to know what happened since coronavirus. Garden seeds went completely bonkers. Demand for gardening just went completely crazy when the coronavirus thing hit. I have a little bit less visibility because things were pretty hectic for our business.
[8:20] We got behind on orders, and we turned off all of our advertising to try to slow orders down, and they didn’t really slow down. My sense is that because restaurants have been out of business and closed temporarily for the COVID problems that a little bit of end-user demand has dropped a little bit.
[8:45] But we’ve talked to so many microgreens growers who said they have changed their focus on marketing more toward farmers markets, more toward mainstream grocery stores and supplying those types of markets that the slowdown hasn’t been that steep, but I think it’s been a little slower on microgreens. Let’s call it a speedbump on the highway of growth for the past three months.
[9:12] But my expectation is that as coronavirus winds itself down and businesses begin to come back to normal operating, restaurants especially, I expect a full rebound on that. I’m not terribly worried about it.
[9:28] Brian: That’s really interesting that you say that. Obviously, I’m in Ireland, but we’ve seen the exact same thing here. The seed company that I buy from here, they had the same issues with people buying all of their seed, and they actually had to shut down their website. They could only open their website for a few hours a week, the demand was so high.
[9:49] Parker Garlitz: It’s been a very interesting spring. One thing that has been a consequence of that is there are supply chain difficulties in the seed industry now. My expectation is that in the next year to maybe a year-and-a-half, there are going to be some varieties that are tougher to get.
[10:09] One of our most popular seeds is black oil sunflower. We order huge quantities of black oil sunflower. We bring it in from Italy. They have phenomenal growth in Italy, just a phenomenal product, and the seed quality is outstanding.
[10:28] Between the coronavirus challenges that Italy had and how backed up customs is, things are not coming in as fast as they have in the past. Let’s put it that way. It’s been a little challenging.
[10:43] Brian: That was one of my questions was, where do you actually get your seed from. Do you pull seeds from a whole lot of different growers, or how does that all work?
[10:51] Parker Garlitz: That’s a great question. We source our seeds primarily by contracting with growers, and we have growers all over the world. We have growers in several European countries. We have growers in South American countries. Probably 60-70% of our seed, I would guess, is grown in the United States or Canada.
[11:13] Microgreen seeds are bought in such quantities that we typically contract with growers directly for those seeds. We work directly with seed farms.
[11:25] Brian: Okay, great. When you’re saying microgreen seeds, one thing I always tell people is that microgreen seeds are the exact same seeds as normal seed of their adult vegetable. Could you confirm or set me right on that. Is that correct?
[11:43] Parker Garlitz: You’re exactly right. We do differentiate because, for us, a microgreen seed is usually also grown as a full-grown vegetable or a sprout, but we would refer to it as microgreen seeds because the volume of seed that we sell – if you went back 20 years ago in the seed industry, the amount of broccoli seed that was sold in a year other than for professional growers, a home gardener is going to buy a packet, maybe a gram of broccoli seed.
[12:17] We have microgreens growers that will routinely buy hundreds of pounds of, hundreds of kilos of seed each year from us. So, when we buy broccoli, if we buy it like [12:30] and Di Ciccio broccoli, or whatever variety of broccoli we’re bringing in.
[12:38] In years past, we would have ordered a much smaller amount and maybe not have been able to sell the volume we needed to contract directly with growers. But because between sprouts and microgreens, we’re able to bring in and contract directly with growers for tons and tons of seed at a time.
[12:56] Brian: Are plants grown specifically for the purposes of seed production, or does the plant serve another purpose too, and seed production is just an offset bonus?
[13:07] Parker Garlitz: It depends on the type of seed that you’re talking about. If you’re talking about tomato seed, those seeds are typically a byproduct of making a tomato paste or something like that, but not in every case. In some cases, tomatoes are grown specifically as seed tomatoes, but a byproduct would be a food product that can be used. In things like broccoli or cabbage, those are generally grown specifically for seed, and there’s no vegetable harvest there at all. They go all the way straight past the mature vegetable to seed.
[13:52] Brian: Okay. Very interesting. I was always wondering that, actually. I have a few questions for you that are specifically on seed if you don’t mind me asking a few questions.
[14:00] Parker Garlitz: I’m at your service. You bet.
[14:02] Brian: Thanks a million. I’ve seen people online before talking about how they unknowingly used seed to grow microgreens that were pretreated with a fungicide. Then, after eating those microgreens, they became sick. So, would you mind explaining why some seeds are treated with fungicides, and then how we know what to look out for so that we don’t buy seeds like this to grow microgreens with?
[14:25] Parker Garlitz: You bet. Absolutely. When you buy seed from a professional seed company, typically, it depends on who they’re selling to. Most seeds that are sold in paper packets to home growers are usually not treated.
[14:46] Treated seeds that are treated with things like fungicides are typically treated for professional growers, farmers, who are looking to plant seed maybe early or under conditions that aren’t ideal to get a jump on the season.
[15:01] So, a seed trader with a fungicide, for example, you can plant it a little bit earlier than you normally would in conditions that are a little bit wetter than they normally would be. Those types of seeds are typically sold to professional growers and farmers.
[15:19] On our website, we differentiate between treated and untreated seeds. Most of our treated seeds are in peas, beans, and corn, and we have a couple of others, a couple of squashes, and things like that. It’s clearly designated whether it’s treated or not. But yeah, for microgreens and sprouts, you certainly would not want to be growing treated seeds there.
[15:42] Brian: No, definitely. That’s something that people really need to be aware of and be careful when they’re buying. Just one, different terms for describing seeds, there is GMO and non-GMO seeds. Would you mind telling us the difference between the two of them?
[15:57] Parker Garlitz: You bet, and I’ll throw a couple of other terms in there, which are hybrid and open-pollinated, and heirloom that we can talk about in the mix of that discussion so that there’s a full picture.
[16:13] A GMO seed is genetically modified, and what that basically means is that a laboratory is using a scientific, kind of a gene-splicing approach to alter the genetic makeup of a seed in a laboratory. Those seed are typically patented; those seeds are typically the big high-product seeds: corn, soybeans, those types of super-high production seed crops.
[16:45] Most varieties of seed don’t even have a genetically modified option. So if you wanted to grow a genetically modified kohlrabi, for example, I doubt it even exists. It’s possible somebody is working on that somewhere, but I doubt it exists. So most genetically modified crops are sold by the big seed conglomerates like Seminis, and Monsanto, and Bayer, and those guys.
[17:13] We deal strictly in 100% non-genetically modified. These are natural seeds that are open-pollinated and sometimes referred to as heirloom. An open-pollinated seed is a seed that is totally natural, and if you recover the seed and save the seed for planting in the following season, you’re going to get the same characteristics as the prior generation of plants.
[17:42] Open-pollinated means that you can save seeds from season to season, which is more for gardening than it is for microgreens. Some people use the term heirloom. From our point of view, heirloom, there’s no hard-fast definition for heirloom.
[18:00] Some people will say that if the seed is open-pollinated, then it’s by definition heirloom, but other people take a little bit more stringent definition. For us, heirloom seed is an open-pollinated seed. In our company, we have experienced growing for a couple of generations. So, if your grandmother knew this seed and was growing the same crop, for us, that’s an heirloom seed, so it’s got to have a little bit of a track record.
[18:29] And you differentiate that from a hybrid seed, which is, I guess, technically a genetically modified seed, but it’s naturally genetically modified. So you’re cross-pollinating two varieties of squash, for example, naturally, and then you’re getting an offspring that has characteristics of both. But the difference is, that’s not genetically modified in a laboratory. It’s natural cross-pollination that creates the hybrid.
[19:01] The challenge with hybrid seeds is they’re often more expensive, so they’re usually not great candidates for microgreens. If you do save the seeds of a hybrid, you’ll typically get an offspring that has nonreliable characteristics. So you might get more characteristics from the father plant versus the mother plant or some odd mix of the two that’s not the same as the hybrid generation. I hope that made sense.
[19:28] Brian: It definitely makes sense. My background, before microgreens, was actually working on golf courses, and poa annua is the main grass of most of the golf courses that I worked on. You would refine that plant down to a really, really fine plant. It was a completely different plant. It was a much denser plant and a much finer plant. But then once it’s seeded, when you use those seeds, it just goes back to as it was, a real stocky, long, bad grass. So, that’s interesting.
[20:01] Parker Garlitz: Yeah. It’s reverting back to characteristics from earlier generations. Yep. That’s exactly it.
[20:07] Brian: Yeah, very interesting. Sometimes, I hear some growers blaming seed they’ve got on maybe mold issues they’re having. Let’s say we have all of our environmental conditions correct – the humidity in the grow room, your watering’s on point, with no overwatering, the heat is good, but there’s still mold there. Is it possible that for some reason, the seeds are causing the mold, and if so, how would that work? It’s something that I’m curious about.
[20:35] Parker Garlitz: It is possible that the mold originates from seed, but it’s also possible that it originates environmentally. For example, every breath that you take, you’re breathing in mold spores. They’re just in the air. If you’ve got a tray of something warm and moist and mold spores fall out of the air into it, there’s a good chance that they can take hold and grow. But there can also be mold spores on the husks of seeds, and that’s a function of whatever conditions they were grown in and where they came from, and it’s almost uncontrollable.
[21:16] So the best approach on that is to have a regime that can knock down mold and can deal with those issues preventatively on every tray that you grow. For us, hydrogen peroxide is a very reliable antimould agent that almost always takes care of the problem. Adding a little bit of hydrogen peroxide to your initial water usually takes care of the problem or spot-treating with a spray bottle with maybe a little bit higher percentage of hydrogen peroxide mix can spot-treat. But yes, it’s possible mold could come from anywhere, including the seed, for sure.
[22:00] Brian: Okay. Very interesting. Is there any way of storing seed that you could recommend like what’s the best way of storing it to avoid that, in a container or something away from the air is probably best?
[22:13] Parker Garlitz: Yeah. If you keep it sealed and away from the air, as a general rule, you want to store seeds in a cool, dry place – the cooler, the better, even to the point of storing them in a freezer.
[22:24] Brian: Really? In a freezer?
[22:26] Parker Garlitz: That’s the function of extending the germination rate of seeds. If you’re familiar with the seed vault that they have in Norway, they’ve got a massive library. They’re trying to collect all of the seeds on the planet and store them in a glazier in Norway so that they’re frozen, and if the worst ever happens, we can reseed the planet.
[22:48] Freezing those seeds will dramatically expand the germination rate. For most microgreens growers, that’s usually not an issue. They’re typically not buying several years supply of seed at a time. It’s probably not necessary. But in terms of mold, yeah, store them in a cool, dry place, and treat with a little hydrogen peroxide to be safe, and it should be fine.
[23:12] Brian: Great. Thanks for that. What you mentioned there, I actually had a question on that. At what point would seeds be too old that they won’t germinate anymore?
[23:20] Parker Garlitz: That’s a great question, and it varies from species to species or variety to variety of seeds. Some seeds will last normally and naturally two or three or four years with no difficulty. Other seeds will only go a year before the germination rate starts to decline.
[23:38] That gets into maybe a whole separate sideline discussion, but I would say this: the entire seed industry from seed farms is usually based on weight. When we buy a 50-pound bag of seed from a seed farm, it’s not uncommon for us to buy a 50-pound bag of seed from the seed farm, and then when it arrives in our warehouse when we weigh it in, it might weigh 49 pounds.
[24:08] What happened? Did the seed company short us? No, what happens is when seeds are first harvested, they have a high moisture content. From the time that they’re cleaned and bagged at the farm and shipped to us, they may have lost a pound or half a pound of water weight. We didn’t receive any fewer seeds, but they might have lost a little bit of weight in terms of the water content.
[24:36] That water content really governs germination rate. The higher that water content, the lower the germination rate as a general rule. Mother Nature has typically designed annual seeds to harvest in the fall, be saved through the winter, be planted, and grow again in the spring.
[24:55] So, generally speaking, if the seeds are less than a year old, less than nine-months-old, you should get a very high germination rate as Mother Nature intended. But if you save those seeds for another year, then the germination rate can start to decline. If you save them for three years or five years, then you can probably start getting a very, very low germination rate.
[25:20] You can extend the germination rate by drying seeds right after they’re harvested. If you dry them to the right moisture content, and that varies from species to species. You can extend the germination rate quite a bit, and if you freeze seeds, you can extend the germination rate.
[25:37] So, a seed that might only have two years’ worth of germination in it, you can extend that to maybe 20 years with a healthy germination rate by drying the seed properly and then freezing it.
[25:48] But eventually, all seeds are going to lose their germination rate. There’s an interesting story of an Egyptian grain that was found in canopic jars in Egyptian tombs, a species of wheat that, after 3,000 years, they were able to germinate a few of the seeds and resurrect, effectively, a dead species of wheat that way. But most of the seeds would not germinate, but they were stored in exactly the precise conditions for that species of wheat that allowed a couple of the kernels to survive that long.
[26:23] But for most microgreens growers, you’re probably dealing with crop year seed that’s less than a year old, and germination should be very healthy and reliable.
[26:34] Brian: Brilliant. One more question on that. Are there any other reasons that seeds – say again, that you have your growing conditions correct. Is there any other reason why a seed wouldn’t germinate other than the fact that it was too old?
[26:49] Parker Garlitz: Yeah. If you’ve got good quality seed. I’m not sure about in Europe or other places in the world, but in the United States, the seed industry is a very heavily-regulated industry. We deal with not only federal regulations but also state regulations with individual states. When we ship seed internationally, it’s a whole other set of regulations.
[27:13] So, at minimum, we have our seed tested very regularly. We have the Utah Department of Agriculture conduct all of our germination tests, and all our seed purity tests, and all of the testing that’s required, and we update those tests on a very regular basis.
[27:29] Every package of seed that we send out includes a lot number, a germination date, a germination percentage, a percentage of purity, a country of origin, and all of those types of different pieces and information that are important for the grower to know, but also are required by law.
[27:49] Typically, we don’t like to sell a seed that doesn’t have at least an 85% germination rate. But most seeds that we have are very new seeds, so we typically turn over our inventory three, four, or five times a year.
[28:07] So, it’s pretty uncommon for us to have a seed that sits in our warehouse for more than three to five months, which is quite a bit longer than Mother Nature allows for if that makes sense. But if it’s good, healthy seed, and you’re growing it in the right conditions, there’s no reason you shouldn’t get a good germination rate.
[28:28] Brian: That’s great; a great answer to that question, Parker. Thanks very much, and thanks a lot for all the time you’ve put in today. I just have a couple more questions for you before I let you go. One of them is, do you grow or eat microgreens yourself?
[28:42] Parker Garlitz: I absolutely do. Right next to me, here, on my office desk, I’ve got a crop of broccoli that’s growing right now in an aquaponic growing tray that I’m experimenting with.
[28:55] Brian: Yeah. I’ve seen a lot about aquaponic growing, but it’s not something I’ve looked into too much myself.
[29:02] Parker Garlitz: Hydroponic would typically mean you’re not growing in soil, but you’re growing in a growing medium like a coconut core, or maybe a felt, or a bamboo, or a jute pad, where this aquaponic system that I’m experimenting with actually has a reservoir of water and a stainless steel fine-mesh screen that you seed the top of the screen and bring the water level underneath up so that it’s just directly in contact with the screen. It will sprout, and it’s growing great. So, I’m on about day two of my broccoli, here, so I’ve got another six or seven days left to go before I harvest this. But the previous crop that I grew on this was daikon radish, and it was very spicy.
[29:56] Brian: Brilliant. That sounds really cool. That’s something I’d really like to try. You mentioned broccoli there. What’s your favorite microgreen?
[30:02] Parker Garlitz: I’m a big fan of black oil sunflower, and it is our most popular microgreen seed, so I don’t think I’m alone there. Second to that is probably nasturtium, which is an edible flower. Nasturtium is interesting. The flavor profile actually changes as you chew it. When you first taste it, it’s a little bit sweet, and then it morphs into tangy, and then it gets spicy. It’s a very interesting experience eating nasturtium micros.
[30:36] Brian: Brilliant. So, look, Parker, thanks a million for coming on and sharing your knowledge. I know you’re a busy man, and there are going to be a lot of people who benefit and learn from what you shared here today, so thanks a million for that.
[30:47] Parker Garlitz: You bet. Well, I’m at your service, and it was a pleasure.
[30:50] Brian: Thanks, Parker. So there you have it. I think you’d agree that Parker provided some great knowledge there. We hope you learned from it. I certainly did. I really want to thank Parker, again, for being such a great guest.
[31:03] He didn’t know it at that time, but that was my very first interview, and I’m very grateful that someone of his stature in this field agreed to come onto the podcast at such an early stage. I have to admit that after I listened back to the interview, I thought of a bunch more questions that I wanted to ask him, and I should have asked him. But you live, and you learn.
[31:24] My expertise is in growing and selling microgreens. Podcasting and interviewing are totally new to me, but I’m determined to get better at it, so I hope you stick with me for the journey.
[31:35] I think something really interesting Parker said there was that in every breath that you take, you’re breathing in mold spores, and he also mentioned that using hydrogen peroxide was a way of treating and preventing mold. So, to do that, you should use hydrogen peroxide mixed down to a 3% solution. That’s one way to combat mold.
[31:54] I want to let you in on a little teaser now for next week’s episode, and that is that it’s all about mold and microgreens. So I’m going to go through my experience of what I find are the best ways to prevent getting mold and also treating it when you do get it. If you do what I say, you’re not going to get any mold, so you won’t have to treat it. If you haven’t already, subscribe to the podcast, so you don’t miss that.
[32:17] One final thing before I go, Parker was such a great guest. I want to plug his company. If you’re in the United States, and you’re thinking of growing microgreens, or you’re already growing microgreens, I can’t recommend enough that you buy your seed from Parker’s company TrueLeafMarket.com.
[32:32] I’m looking at the website here now, and they’ve got every microgreen seed you can think of available there. The website is so user-friendly, too. You can choose from different quantities of seed from high to low, and they’ve got a bunch of growing materials and everything there.
[32:46] And you know that when you’ve got people like Parker behind this company that customer service is going to be top-notch there too. So, I can’t recommend these guys enough, and you can head over there directly to TrueLeafMarket.com, or you can check the show notes here of this episode, and you can get the link there, and that will bring you to the website too.
So that is the end of the episode. Thanks so much for listening all the way to the end. I appreciate it. I hope you have a great week, and I’ll catch you on the next episode.
[End of episode 33:48]